Film Groups crystal sync

[S 8 Booster]

Matt, did you count the frame deviation/stability backwards? This is very important because all cams need a some time to settle the speed, even the x-tal ones I assume.

You will get a quite noticeable slip or overshoot immediately after you start the take but the cam stabilizes within approx 2 secs but it may well count for the deviation you noticed.

Secondly: Do you run the digi film/timecode counter from a AV disK? If not the playback may be inconsitent, especially at a large film format.

Some non-AV disks normally stops reading (very short "rests") to cool down for short periodes at playback.



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Vidar

[mattias]

> I'm sure everyone would agrees that showing our Super 8 films on print is where Super 8 makes its mark.

i don't. super 8 belongs on video. i do love how projected k40 looks, but what mark does that make if nobody can see it? i don't think sync sound will change the fact that people watch movies on tv or in theaters, none of which can show super-8.

/matt

[#Pedro]

supa_ate_sixteen:
All these systems are established since the 1970ies and we even have a DIN industry norm sheet for double system sound. THe matter is only USING them, not inventing a new thing. THe requirements of the syncing job lets only few fantasy open, you always must compare and count frames as a film consists of frames and create some reference on the tape or audio media, maybe an audio pulse for each frame etc, created by the camera. The problem of all systems is, that in the end, when it really comes to sync sound and pic togehter, one of the devices must be regulated. This means electronic modification.
No matter if you do this for editing on analoge perfo tape or in the end, when transfering a PC-soundtrack to stripe.

But there are established systems for shooting, editing and projecting already in production and available.

Pedro

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[This message has been edited by #Pedro (edited March 19, 2002).]

[Nigel]

I agree with Mattias I put all my S8 to video. I would like to get some blow-ups done but we will see if I ever find an optical printer.

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[S 8 Booster]

An easy way to check out if your cam is adequately sync (without x-tal mod) or not:

Connect a HQ multimeter that can measure accurate frequencies (or an oscilloscope) to the flash socket and run you cam at 18 or 24 fps.

A 1.5v dry battery may be required as a voltage source to trig the measuring equipment.

If a HQ multimeter like Fluke M87 or equivalent meter is used the frequency can be read precisely within 6 digits or so.

Dry tests can be done without a film but final tests will need a film in the cam to get proper results. 10-30 sec runs may be adequate to get hold of it.

a 2-3 minute "dry" run may be a good indicator too with the multimeter which has an "average" option too.



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Vidar

[S8 Booster]

Did that test today on the Canon 1014XL-S. The reults were great: 24fps (24Hz +0.01 / -0.02) AVR 24fps (-). A slight hunting appeared now and then. Thus the deviation. AVR is very close to 24 fps a little on the (-) side.

This does not mean that all these cams do it right out of the box: Every cam need to be checked properly in advance before serious use. Trail n? error!

Repeated tests & results to follow later.



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Forrest Warrior

[Matt Pacini]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by S 8 Booster:
Matt, did you count the frame deviation/stability backwards? This is very important because all cams need a some time to settle the speed, even the x-tal ones I assume.

You will get a quite noticeable slip or overshoot immediately after you start the take but the cam stabilizes within approx 2 secs but it may well count for the deviation you noticed.

Secondly: Do you run the digi film/timecode counter from a AV disK? If not the playback may be inconsitent, especially at a large film format.

Some non-AV disks normally stops reading (very short "rests") to cool down for short periodes at playback.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hi.
I didn't exclude the first frames, if that's what you mean. I don't know what you mean by "backward" here.
So in fact the cameras may be more accurate than I thought. I'll find out when I go to sync my audio up, won't I???
As for the AV drive questions, I have SCSI drives, and they're really fast, but it's irrelevant in this scenario anyway:
All the software was doing was simply ticking off SMPTE time code. It was not playing back any audio or video.
A Commodore 64 could do this with no problem, it's just not taxing on the system at all.
You're probably thinking of what happens when software is playing back audio/video AND you're displaying SMPTE code.
The software knows that the display of the SMPTE is a lower priority than playing the audio, etc., so it puts that on a lower priority list, but that doesn't mean the actual SMPTE time code itself is being comprimised, just that the function that displays the numbers onscreeen will look for the info less often or whatever.
(Highly simplified explanation for what's going on inside a MIDI sequencer!)
And even if it were, and if it were pausing every once in a while, it would catch up at certain points and display the correct SMPTE number anyway, otherwise there would be no reason these things would be using SMPTE.

Matt Pacini

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[S8 Booster]

Hi Matt

{I didn't exclude the first frames, if that's what you mean.}
Yes its what i think of. The camera needs a little time to settle the speed.

Sample: If you film of a TV screen you will see a lot of deviation in the start of the take on the TV scan lines. It settles within 1- 2 seconds or so.

{I don't know what you mean by "backward" here}
Count the frames vs SMPTE code from the end of the film back towards the start and check it the deviation originates from the start of the take.


{So in fact the cameras may be more accurate than I thought. I'll find out when I go to sync my audio up, won't I???}
Might well be! Depends if you use digi scan = 100% true speed or projector copy (not always true speed) for DV destination / Sound edit.


{As for the AV drive questions, I have SCSI drives, and they're really fast, but it's irrelevant in this scenario anyway:}
SCSI drives are really good but only the AV versions don?t stop to take a breath from time to time on heavy playback: I think this is identical for all non-AV disks under heavy contionus load.


{All the software was doing was simply ticking off SMPTE time code. It was not playing back any audio or video.}
Seems perfect for the job.

{You're probably thinking of what happens when software is playing back audio/video AND you're displaying SMPTE code.}
Yes, one option that is.


{The software knows that the display of the SMPTE is a lower priority than playing the audio, etc., so it puts that on a lower priority list, but that doesn't mean the actual SMPTE time code itself is being comprimised, just that the function that displays the numbers onscreeen will look for the info less often or whatever.
(Highly simplified explanation for what's going on inside a MIDI sequencer!)
And even if it were, and if it were pausing every once in a while, it would catch up at certain points and display the correct SMPTE number anyway, otherwise there would be no reason these things would be using SMPTE.}
Guess you?re right about this.



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Forrest Warrior